Theological Discussions

by **EMG** » June 30th, 2005, 11:44 am

Since there seems to be some debate about certain members and certain topics, I thought I'd let the membership decide. Is there any value to having theological discussion about the validity of the site? Do you want that sort of thing or is it just an annoyance. Cast your vote, if you think the moral discussions are positive then vote yes, if you think they're a distraction or of no value vote no. The vote lasts for 5 days and I'll abide by the decision of the membership. My only other note on the subject is that if any thread breaks down to name calling, or just simple abuse I will simply delete the thread and will either warn or ban the offending parties at my discretion. If you want MY personal opinion on this topic, ask.

by **demigraff** » June 30th, 2005, 11:58 am

Maybe you could have a controversy forum, which you don't see unless you tick a box in your profile. Then, people who enjoy getting deep into debates about the morality, or validity, or whatever, of the site, can enjoy those discussions. And people who don't like that kind of thing don't see the threads :)

by **BobbyS** » June 30th, 2005, 2:10 pm

Until an eager poster called Mortal appeared I'd have said 'yes'. Now I have seen the error of my ways.

by **chymos** » June 30th, 2005, 2:33 pm

I see no problem in honest discussion or debate. However, most people who would come to a site such as this and bring theology into the discussion likely have ulterior motives, such as convincing people to leave, convert to their religion, or (most likely) believe that this site is inherently evil and thus are attempting to "save your poor souls". This is the reason I say nay.

by **loony28** » June 30th, 2005, 9:20 pm

:twisted: I voted yes simply because new members may have some questions about this site. We don't want to frighten them off if they have a question about the morality of this site. I would go with demigraff's suggestion of creating another forum for this type. This way members can go into this forum to discuss morality and what not. If EMG makes this forum then the morality stays in that forum so other members who don't want to participate in or read the debate won't have to in the other forums and threads. Simple solution. :twisted:

by **Jack** » June 30th, 2005, 9:32 pm

If theology is to be discussed, it should have it's own forum. Otherwise, I vote no.

by **EMG** » June 30th, 2005, 11:21 pm

Mortal has been removed from the site. I gave him his opportunity, but since he said he didn't care what I did and didn't value the site I didn't value his continued membership. I did this neither lightly or frivilously. So, shall I continue to leave morality in Idle chatter or give it it's own forum or delete it?

by **loadedkaos** » June 30th, 2005, 11:28 pm

I'll have to agree that we should have a forum for theology if we do decide to post about theoligical topics, and I'm voting yes because some of the topics of the files are for certain life styles and religion is a life style and not every ones in a procelitising religion or in a religion where fetishes are considered "evil". Although the rules for such posting should be considered strict.

by **gregi696** » July 1st, 2005, 12:17 am

I think open discussion of the content on this site is important. But I also think it is important that people be respectful and tolerant of the other people on this site. Especially considering the wide variety of people it appeals to. I think many of the people who post religious topics and repeatedly use religion in their post have neither respect nor tolerance for the people or content of this site. For this reason, I think there shouldn't be religious discussions in the forum. In the words of George Carlin:...Thou shall keep thy religion to thyself... :twisted:

by **sandy82** » July 1st, 2005, 12:30 am

My feeling is that morality is like food, air, clothing, (hopefully) sex: it's part of the atmosphere of life. Some people like hotdogs and Nikes. Others like hamburgers and sandals. If morality comes up in the context of another issue, fine. We didn't have a special category for it before. I don't see the necessity for having a separate category for it now. If others have strong feelings and good reasons on the other side, I will defer to their wishes.

EMG, morality can be an explosive issue because, for some people, it lends itself to preaching and a holier-than-thou attitude. To lead a discussion on morality really takes a professional...a professor, someone with a degree in the subject. We don't have those. I can't see that morality is a central issue in hypnosis except to the extent that hypnotists not try to get people to do dangerous things or engage in behavior against their will. I hope I'm being clear. How about this. When I took driver's ed in high school, there was not a segment entitled "Morality and Driver's Ed." If it comes up incidentally, it comes up. I don't think morality deserves a specially carved-out niche, all its own.

That is, unless I've been woefully misled. Did I wander into a seminary here, two months ago? :wink:

I am still very much interested in Linja's thread on "Human Pride." I'm sure that at some point, if that thread continues, the issue of morality will come up. That's fine...because I look forward to the issue being handled among colleagues who respect one another and are accustomed to showing the good will with which this website has been so generously endowed.

Morality. No special treatment. Due regard and sensitivity when it comes up on an ad hoc basis. That's my feeling.

by **Jerm** » July 1st, 2005, 9:03 am

I agree with Sandy82. Discussion is fine, but no-one wants to hear self-righteous preaching. In my opinion morality shouldn't be an issue on this site. (im Not saying it shouldn't be discussed, just that it shouldn't need it's own special forum.. or support group. lol.)

When I first stumbled onto the original site I kind of got the impression that any person that was genuinely interested in the subject matter must have already accepted that it was not wrong or inherently evil. Or that at the least they would not care. God/religion has no place in erotic/fetish hypnosis.

Also, a special forum might encourage more people like Mortal to preach and abuse others for their beliefs.

by **loadedkaos** » July 1st, 2005, 11:42 am

I think maybe I didn't understand the question... I like to talk about theology and sometimes morality questions arise when I discuss it but to be honest I don't really give a crap on what type of files people listen to. Truth be told my only morales are to not hurt animals and children. Something I think everybody here would agree on. So in retrospect I think if people want to discuss theology fine, if people want to discuss morality particularily the morality of this site it should be in limited capacity. i.e.

poster1: I think that is immoral.
poster2: Well, I don't.
poster1: Okay.

Although this would have to be something that needs strict rules. I still think that ones religion is a part of their life as well as their fetish or what have you. Some people can keep it separate others don't. What I think this site could really use is rules on tolerance. It suprises that some unpopular members would post on things they had no interest in or would disagree with other members in a cruel or idiotic way. I have had my fare share of diareah of the keyboard and have taken accountability for it. Plus I attack post I don't like, not people.(all of this is not necesarily all on this site). Maybe what we really need some fast and hard rules to weed out the troublemakers.

by **drydreamer** » July 1st, 2005, 1:36 pm

What does religion have to do with hypnosis? I voted no. If someone wants to talk about religion or morality, they should go to a website that specializes in those topics. Having been a hardcore fundamentalist Christian in the past, I know that religion cannot bare to take a backseat to anything else. If you let it in the door, it takes over the whole house. Most religions have very little tolerance for any other belief system, and insist on being absolutely correct in all matters. There is no room for discussion in religion. You either agree with it or leave it. Let's LEAVE IT! PLEASE! The religious fanatics can have their own websites where everyone talks the same way and only says things that are acceptable in their own sweet little pretend world. I lifted MY head out of the sand, and I'm NOT sticking it back in! drydreamer

by **sandy82** » July 1st, 2005, 7:27 pm

by **sandy82** » July 1st, 2005, 7:34 pm

by **Jack** » July 1st, 2005, 7:36 pm

What moral code is that, exactly? :smile:

by **Jerm** » July 1st, 2005, 8:37 pm

by **missypuss** » July 2nd, 2005, 10:50 am

I work in family support, sort of like socal services in the US. I voted No! resoundingly , I have seen many men of god hide behind their robes and use religion as a smokescreen to do all sorts of horrible things to youngsters; who see the cloth and believe they have to do anything they are told. I have met many adults also who believed the church provided some sort of sanctuary when they were kids only to be recieving counselling for the things they ended up being subjected to . . I dont mean to rant; nor do I believe all religions are the same , its just individuals who use the pulpit as a moral high ground. I dont go to church as I am not religious, therefore I am surprised someone who finds this site so inherently wrong should spend so much time visiting it?? :?:

by **makidas** » July 2nd, 2005, 11:54 am

I have to say, soon as this is the only community that I frequent, I would hate to see any kind of censorship. But then, something needs to be done. What happened last night was ridiculous. I like a good debate as long as it stays non-offensive. Alot of things Mortal said were very offensive, even to people of his own faith, in turn, people get frustrated and generally pissed off (myself included). What he was doing was no different than what sk and masterhypnotist were doing, same wine, different bottle. I voted no, but on second thought, I think it should be allowed with a few rules.

No Preaching.
No Use of the words sin or repent.
No Attempting to frighten people away from the site by using fear and guilt tactics (fear going to hell, guilty for sinning)

There's probably more, but that's all that comes to mind at the moment. But those are my thoughts, all for now.

by **EMG** » July 2nd, 2005, 1:54 pm

by **sandy82** » July 2nd, 2005, 5:15 pm

Makidas, I also tend to agree with your point of view. I would fine-tune your points only very slightly.

In my own mind, there's a distinction between morality and theology. Morality, simply put, is one's ideas of what is right and what is wrong. Everybody has their own, and they either abide by them or they don't.

For that reason, I don't see much point in discussing morality, unless it is a marginal topic in a more general discussion.

I also agree with the general thrust of the words you picked out. Let me give you my version of what I think you're aiming at. Please tell me if I'm wrong. Any discussion of morality, however marginal, should not contain the notions: you, Makidas, ought or ought not to do... OR you, Sandy, should or shouldn't do.... .

In contrast, I have no problem with a statement that the ancient Egyptians believed that people ought to worship Ra...provided that the factual statement is not then converted into "you ought".

Contrary to popular belief, it is legal to teach theology in public schools. The test is (to use a broad example) like a biology class. The teacher says, "This is a frog. We will dissect it." The teacher does not say, "This was a nice, happy frog and it was wrong to kill it. Now, we will dissect it."

The first statement is a fact. The second statement is value-loaded.

How about this? I'm interested in how the military works, but I damned sure don't want to see any recruiter.

I'm still hoping to learn some basics about satanism, in neutral language. I hope whatever guidelines we have will permit that.

A quick, final point. We may want to consult drydreamer closely. As far as I can see, he's the only one with a first-hand knowledge of the whole proselytizing phenomenon. I'm sure he has additional valuable insights to share.

I'm not entirely clear what we are actually discussing. There's a distinction between morality and theology. Morality as a central theme gives me the shakes. Neutral theology is worthwhile.

by **makidas** » July 2nd, 2005, 8:45 pm

by **makidas** » July 5th, 2005, 5:21 pm

If no one else has any more thoughts on the subject, have you decided what to do emg?

by **VeryGnawty** » July 9th, 2005, 10:39 pm

by **sandy82** » July 10th, 2005, 12:43 am

by **makidas** » July 15th, 2005, 2:03 am

Is this forgotten? :? Just curious, because I'm fairly sure there will be others.

by **loadedkaos** » July 15th, 2005, 11:32 am

I just assumed this was a dead subject because the voting time is well over 5 days, their is real no reason for me to post an opinion about it anymore. Atleast that's how I feel.

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 12:35 pm

by **loadedkaos** » July 15th, 2005, 7:31 pm

You're not wrong sandy82. I just thought that this thread was started to figure out what people thought about the discussion of morality especially from a theoligical context to lay down some ground rules and to get a general feel for what the members want, within 5 days. I think if people still want to talk about this they can, their is no reason to lock this thread, some one would eventually just start a new one, with a similar title.

added:
Maybe I just jumped the gun in thinking their was nothing else to get out of this, thread. Plus I'm a geting a little burnt out about this issue.

by **makidas** » July 15th, 2005, 8:11 pm

I assume this discussion is over, what I was asking was basically, what will be done if anything?

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 9:58 pm

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