active vs. passive wetting

[Ntranced]

[Ladon]

[wohermiston]

Even if you respond to the idea of "losing control, it is more likely that you are internalizing it as "it is ok to pee right now" It is human nature to stay in control of things. Further, the urinary system is hard wired. up to about age 2 the brain plays no role. everything happens in the spinal cord. The external sphincter is not in play and the slightest push from the bladder muscles will cause urine flow. as you get older, the external sphincter takes on it's role as a normally tight muscle. you have to phyically relax it.
the internal bladder sphincter is controlled by the brain. But how is in my mind not well understood.

Do you really know how you pee? I don't.

sure we all get the urge, then the brain blocks the action until we are somewhere safe. then you must relax and go. But what really takes place. I contend that it is all somewhat of a mystery.
The ideal solution for many of us would be to return to the infant stage, that would be a true "no control" condition or automatic bladder. But this would seem impossible due to the hard wiring.
One thing I have found that may be effective to others is to accept that when you pee, you find it amazing and have know idea how it happens, it just happens. That it is very cool!
Since the very first urge you feel, is the same as the original spinal cord action in an infant, the perfection of this would be to pee the moment you feel that urge. But you need to pursuade the brain to "stay out of it!"

And I still think true bedwetting in an adult is just impossible because a whole part of the brain is dedicated to clamping the sphincters the moment you fall to sleep. I do not think hypnosis can undo harwired parts of the body.

[Ladon]

Its been shown that hypnosis can affect autonomic (hard-wired) functions, like heart rythym and eye muscle movements. Some good hypnotic subjects have been able to correct their myopathy (poor vision, not caused by a deformation of the eye) during age regression, since they regressed to a time before they over-worked their eye muscles. I'd like to find the research, but Bandler and Grinder suggested that it might be possible for some diabetic individuals to reverse the diabetes, by altering their body chemistry. I know its been researched in asian monks, the ability to alter body chemistry.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is: Involuntary muscles are still connected to the brain, you just have no conscious control over them. The subconscious certainly may have access to those functions. In the bladder, the internal urinary sphincter doesn't wait until 'its safe', it waits until the bladder is ready to empty. That's what causes urge incontinence, when the bladder detrusor contracts, and the internal urinary sphincter relaxes, and all thats left to hold the urine is the voluntary external sphincter, which isn't always enough.

And as for bedwetting, many adults continue to wet the bed occasionally (or frequently) for much of their lives. I don't see how anything is 'hard wired' to lock down the bladder while you sleep. That's why the 'pee dream' is a fairly universal experience. If you're convinced by the dream that its okay to pee right now, you might go through the same motions you would when awake, allowing yourself to wet the bed, because it wasn't real.

[demigraff]

[DLinMSP]

I have been listening to several of the diaper files daily and they are definitely having an affect on me.

I started having nighttime wetting accidents last summer, I have Curse Bedwetting to thank for that. In October I started wearing diapers and plastic pants on a nightly basis thanks to Curse Night Diapers and Bedwetter Fear to Reality. I am very concerned that if I don't wear a diaper to bed I will wet my bed, couch or chair or wherever I'm sleeping. My night diaper is a Tranquility ATN and Comco plastic pants, a very good combination.

I moved my office to my home and I regularly listen to Diaper Dependence 2 and now I where diapers nearly all the time. My daytime diaper is a Tranquility Slimline and the Comco plastic pants.

Since listening to these and other files my reliance on diapers has grown from fun to a very strong need. I know I don't trance every time I listen but with the files on in the background they seem to have a subliminal effect on me. I don't wet involuntarily during the day and I don't force myself to wet. I just let it happen when the urge appears and think nothing of wetting my diaper during the day, no matter where I am.

Thanks to WMM for the opportunity to extend my enjoyment of wearing and using diapers and plastic pants.

[wohermiston]

[Ladon]

[wohermiston]

at this point I think we are in agreement. But if the medical pages are correct, then the wake-wet-forget approach would be the only way to make this happen. But that is not the same thing as regressing behaviour back to automatic. That, I think, is an impossibility. So again, the only issue I was trying to express is the best language to persuade or convince the individual, without using negatives, or making them feel that they are without control. I, and the original poster tend to beleive that the mind will resist attempts at losing control. The commnds need to be persuasive, positive and recurrsive so as to reinforce the behaviour. the language is the hardest part. Those that want this really want it, so there is no need to be negative. just reinforce the wanting. I have had some good results with just suggesting that when the bladder lets go, you marvel at it in amazement and think to yourself that you have no idea how this is happening but that it is very cool.

[Ladon]

I believe it is possible to become so used to emptying ones bladder without hesitation, that it will be second nature even when asleep, but we can agree to disagree. One reason I feel it is possible: I used to lucid dream regularly, because I made a habit of checking my reality during my waking hours. In time, it became so natural, I began doing it in my sleep by habit, and found I was dreaming. It seems that it could work the same way. We are agreed on one point, that control cannot be returned to natural reflex, the same as an infant, but it can be 'close enough'.

Losing, by nature, is negative. Giving up, letting go, and even ignoring are much more positive. Returning to a natural incontinent state, remembering to forget about that urge and letting oneself be surprised by the results. Focus on how good it feels, suddenly becoming aware of the growing wetness... :)

I recently entered a new script in EMGs March contest. If he doesn't pick mine, I'll record it for WMM. I attempted to keep the images and verbiage very positive and light, feelings of babyhood and learning to "unfeel" something.

[LilJennie]

[wohermiston]

"I don't think anything is "hardwired" other than the physical ability of the mind to control the sphincters and to override the detrusor reflex. Just because those nerves are in place and functioning, that doesn't mean the mind has to make use of them if it can accept that it doesn't need to, and relearn the original behavior of not doing so."

with regards to this, if you search bedwetting solutiions online, you will usually find the following advice with regards to childeren: it is only a matter of time before the child will normally acheive night time continence. Why is this advice so common? I would suggest it is because of the last part of mind development already described. IE the child does nothing of his own free will to achieive this. It would suggest a basic genetic memory behaviour of the basil ganglia to suppress detrusor contractions when asleep. If that is the case, I see no way of changing that behaviour through hypnosis.

I come back to "wake-wet-forget" as a probable approach.