Amateur 'tist - Needs pointers getting self into trance

[Ladon]

I've successfully hypnotized my wife, sent her through several really nice guided imagery sessions, worked with her on breast growth and fun stuff like that. She's confident that she's trancing nicely and really enjoys the process.

The problem is me. Many years ago I bought a full set of DPF CDs, (Complete baby-wet and messy when triggered). But I never got any results other than some level of relaxation. I get about the same results from some WMM files, but others just irritate me. The splices in EMG files almost always bring me to full awareness.

For some things, pretending it works seems to be the answer, working towards convincing my mind that it is indeed obeying the suggestion. Trouble is, the suggestions I want most are tough to imagine, and harder to pretend.

I understand the principle of hypnosis, distracting the critical factor (the minds filter) so the subconscious will accept the suggestions more readily. I am a very Word- oriented person, I speed read and retain while still being aware of errors. I tend to notice when the Voice uses negative statements (you can't, you don't) and it bothers me enough to attract my attention.

Another thing that has tended to get in the way is my imagination. I usually agine in words, I'm a writer by nature, so when asked to visualize things, I get stuck.

I'm going to try recording a few scripts for myself, and throw in some of the deepening files here, I like Bubbles in particular, and try to listen to them every night.

[MacGyver]

i am curious, you say you are a writer, have you written anything that can paint pictures in peoples heads? and if so, do you actually see a picture in your head before you write? if so, then you may just need to work on visualizing.

i can form a picture in my head, and eventhough it is not always lit very well or may just be image flashes, when i describe what i see in my head, others see, hear, feel, touch, taste, and sometimes even smell what i am describing, some even feel as if they are actually there and forget that i am standing next to them telling them this stuff, LOL i am going to give you an example of what i am saying.

at the last place i worked, i described one of my trips to the beach at saint george island in florida, the guy zoned out while i was describing it, then all the sudden he told me i had to shut up and he had to get something to drink so he could get the salt out of his mouth.

i have been asked just how in the world do i paint pictures in peoples heads like that, what is my secret, how do i do it? my reply is, first, i paint the pictures in my head, then describe what i see, hear, touch, taste, smell, and even what i feel sometimes.

eventhough i can make people experience things just by describing what i see in my head, myself, i still need to work with visualization, and i think EMG has a file on this site that should help if ya care to try it, other than that, the onyl other thing i can think of, if your woman has a voice you like, next time you put her under, give her suggestions to be able to put you under and to do the induction to your liking and all and see what happens.

[cardigan]

A lot of people have problems achieving results with certain files. This can be down to many, many different things. But it can also be something as simple as - your subconscious is afraid to let you follow the suggestions. So nothing ever happens. You need to bypass the critical factor of the conscious mind. It will only allow suggestions that it likes and that it is certain will work to enter your subconscious and do the reprogramming.

A thing like having yourself become messy goes against possibly years of potty training when you were an infant. You had a lot of positive reinforcement when you did it correct and possibly a lot of negative things when you didn't. And so deep down in our minds we have a lot of programming that points to being able to not use the diaper but instead wait until we can get to a potty as good. It brings mommy's reward with it automatically, and it's a very powerful programming. So being able to erase that isn't easy. We see ourselves as "big boys or girls" when we succeed and little, disgusting babies, when we don't. So erasing that exact programming might be virtually impossible for many.

Cardigan

[Ladon]

Mac:

Actually, that's the thing, I don't usually paint a picture in my own mind first, it just comes to me in words, describing the scene, like reading it in a book.

I really got in to Blink's Induction, it was outright great how I was taken into the story. Rather than accepting direct suggestions, I found myself relaxing when he spoke of someone relaxing, and feeling sensations he spoke about in the narrative. I love how he often said 'I don't know what that means, but I think you do' and such. All I know is I didn't feel the need to listen intently, or to actively try to imagine the words, or find my mind thinking of work or this or that, I was listening without intending to.

The alarm on my MP3 player chimed loudly in the middle of one play through, and sat me almost bolt-upright, as I was quite content with Blink's soothing voice until that moment. :p


Cardigan:

By the way, I like your work here, I used your Deep Trance just this morning. I agree it is probably near impossible, but because it is only nearly impossible, it must be possible.

In the past, I was wearing 24/7 and actively trying to become incontinent, but there was some unexpected financial trouble which prevented diapers from being a priority, and though I'd been wearing for almost six months, I had only a little trouble getting back to 'normal'. I am able to thoroughly enjoy using my diapers or pants for anything that I need to 'do', pretty much effortlessly. What I really desire is for my wife to be in control of when that happens, and to know that even if I wanted to clamp down and hold it, I couldn't.

The script I'm writing uses a technique I read about on willdissolver.multiply.com. I liked it because he regularly asks the subject (while in trance) "Would you like that?" or "Would that feel good?" or "Do you understand?", and if the subconscious has reservations, supposedly its easier to work with it this way.

Wow, I rambled that time. Anyway, I wonder if it would work to 'get around' the potty-training issue by using a virtual device. What I mean is: not trying to forget the training that is so firmly ingrained, but giving the subject a way to counteract it by imagining a device that would prevent that training from being effective, much like a real catheter would bypass the bladder's external urinary sphincter and allow unhindered voiding. That's basically what I want, after all, the sudden and unavoidable feeling that those muscles (bladder and bowel sphincters) won't respond, or that they aren't effective any more. I might still 'know how' they work, but can't get them to stop the inevitable.

Anyway, thanks for your replies, I'm planning to keep it up with the inductions for a few weeks, at least, not trying ANY trigger until then unless I know I can obey 100%, (in other words, it won't require me to feel things or not feel things, or do things I can't already do) and any trigger I get will get my 100% full attention, whether the post-hypnotic suggestions are actually working or not, I'm going to pretend I HAVE to do what I'm told. Maybe once that is easy enough, I'll move on to the tougher stuff, once my mind gets used to doing what its told.

[whatthe75]

I think one of the problems you are having here is that you are not a visual person.Each people represent their thoughts in most of the five senses,but we each have a preferred system.You are obviously not a visual person and it would be a lot easier if you had the files written using words in your specific rep system.

From your explanation it SOUNDS like you are a very auditory or sound orientated person.The fact that the changes in EMG's files were enough to distract you means i would guess you are almost a total auditory person ( most people have overlap).

So whilst you read this and notice the sounds around you,and hear the tone of your breathing,you can allow the voice inside your mind to become a soothing whisper speaking to you just one word.....soften.
If this rings true to you let me know.

[Ladon]

You might be on the right track, though there are some things that run contrary to your hypothesis, WhatThe75.

1: I am a voracious reader, both online and in print. After a moment's thought, I wonder if my 'inner voice' is sort of 'translating' the text I'm reading and it ends up processing as an auditory sense?

2: I am actually in graphic design by trade, and like to *think* I'm a decent artist in various formats. Mostly, though, I like to write.


But on the other hand, it would point to a few things I've found to be true...

1: I have trouble listening to a speaker in a classroom setting, but I am able to work effectively even with a complicated audio drama on my headphones. (I think the visual element of watching the speaker might be the issue here)

2: I tend to pick up sounds or patterns that others don't perceive. The high-pitch, quiet whistle of the pilot light in the heater, the harmonic hum of the heat sink on my CPU, etc.

3: I'm better off with clear instructions than a picture or demonstration, any time.

The last paragraph of your post was interesting, I wonder if I would be a good candidate for an IM session? I used to be involved in a large online ageplay roleplaying site and chat sessions would quickly become very real for me. Hmmm...I've got a link for a text-based hypno-vacation, it might be worth looking at. I'll post my results later.

[whatthe75]

[Ladon]

Yes indeed, I am much more able to understand and retain a talk (sermon-style) when my eyes are closed or I occupy my hands instead of trying to "pay attention." Hmm, my teachers just said I was easily distracted.

I hadn't ever thought about it before, but you make an interesting point. Not everyone thinks in words? I guess someone born deaf would not think in words, and I guess some people must think primarily in math. Obviously we are able to think before we learn words. I've noticed its almost as though I'm speaking in my own head.

Another observation: I often listen to audio-drama on my iPod, and while I can work effectively and much more efficiently while doing so, I cannot read with any depth while listening. I am still aware of the sound of the office door (a quiet thump when it closes) alerting me to a customer or boss coming in, the phone, the machines running or not, but I cannot read anything more than a few sentences and listen at the same time. The same is not true of music.

I am also highly attuned to music. I was incubated to the sounds of barbershop harmony in the womb, via trans-belly headphones. I can harmonize to almost anything with a melody, and I can play several instruments by ear. Interestingly, I will find myself humming a march when I am around a machine with a strong repeating rythym, and I tend to find myself stepping in time to any music I hear, even if I don't *like* it. I still remember a section of the snare drum part to a song I played in junior high, and I didn't play the drums.

Back to the subject of reading-based hypnosis, I read through that trance, and I started to trance, but it was distracting to scroll through the page. The suggestions were focused on creating a memory of a pleasant vacation during the previous night. I'm not sure if the memory of the trance session is all there is.

[whatthe75]

Yes many people and teachers alike get frustrated when someone is not looking at them when they talk,they think they are not being listened too but it is in fact the opposite..But auditory people ( myself included) find it easier to understand when our ears are facing the person, so they are in fact giving their full attention.Just in their own way.

Well at least that is sorted out now you can move on knowing this.

An induction which focuses on sounds and the like would suit you well.

Another question.Which of these two do you find easiest to access ( i think i know the answer but lets check.) A feeling or a visualisation?

[Reboot2099]

I don t want to take over the thread or something, but I just wanted to say I have the same problem as Ladon, although not as much. I still understand better when I m looking at a teacher while listening.

But still, I always think in words. I never think in pictures. And I do have a CONSTANT internal dialogue. Like I m making up stories, alternate stories of what happened or could have happened during the day. Yeah, I m weird :) I thought everybody was like that until a couple months ago when I heard a therapist say the opposite.

I can take a picture of someone or something mentally and remember it quite a lot when I close my eyes, but imagining something I didn t necessarily saw, or a moving scene, especially if I am part of it, I cannot. I know, it takes practice, but it s kinda frustrating when most files ask you to imagine things but you can t. Ah well, I ll get it eventually. After all, I can dream, can t I? :)

[whatthe75]

First of all it is not a problem.It is just the way your mind represents things.You are not weird either.No two brians are the same.

Curious: what are you, or were you seeing a therapist about ( i hope they were not saying something bad about the way you think)?

[Ladon]

In response to your question about visualization, neither is easy for me, but it is easier to feel "the warm soft sand" in Blink Basic than to imagine a beach.

[Calimore]

[Blink]

[Blink]

[MacGyver]

ladon, i dont feel the sand, i see the beach, sand, water, people, even a big sand castle.

blink, i can sometimes hear diffeent voices sayin things in my mind, the voice over guy all the way to a sexy feminine voice, and i sometimes hear thoughts in the voices of cartoon characters.

i still think i am pretty weird. LOL :P

[whatthe75]

[Ladon]

Yeah, what exactly is normal anyway? Any why is it that many people who want to be 'different' all act very much the same?

Blink! I'm rather surprised to see a post from you, as I thought you had stopped reading WMM, your last post was October. Your Basic induction encouraged me to study Dr. Erickson in more detail, and I'm currently some chapters in to his Exploratory Casebook and Time Distortion in Hypnosis books, quite enjoying both. Though the more I read them, the more I'm convinced that I have not experienced more than a very light trance, but I could be wrong. I may need to contact a real hypnotist, either online or in person, to be sure.

I suppose it doesn't matter, and I should just relax and enjoy it. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) many of the things I would like to accomplish with hypnosis may be best accomplished in a deep trance. Then again, I may be wrong, but a recording won't be able to work with me and help me find the correct answer will it?

One example I found most interesting in "Time Distortion" was that of a woman he hypnotized, who was convinced she could not be hypnotized. He suggested at one point that her subconscious would be able to demonstrate her ability to trance, but only to the audience, she would be unaware of the signal. Her arm later began to levitate, though she was still emphatically stating she was not in trance. Somnambulism is fun, isn't it?

[Blink]

[Blink]

[MacGyver]

well, my inner hypnotist would be a sexy female voice, other thoughts have other voices, but my inner 'tist is still trying to convert the files i have been listening to into her voice. which might explain a dream i had a few months back though. back when i tried for a long tie to get the effects of the fembutt file, i was playing the body of that file in my sleep for a week or so, and there was this sexy lookin woman wearin a 2 peice bikini and she said the trigger phrase for the fembutt file, then laughed, and that was the last i saw her in my sleep.

i do try to use my weirdness for good, but i am not sure just how long i will be able to leave the normals alone. now, when i say weird, i mean weird, as far as i kow, i am the only person who has done this, the place i was working, i had to feed a noisy machine, it sounded like a family of rats was caught in the thing. from what i have been reading on this site, what i did was go into a trance, felt like i passed out and woke back up, anyways, i started concentrating on a song i liked that annoyed most of my co-workers. we were not to have any radios in the place, the song kept getting louder and louder to the point it was starting to hurt my ear drums. now, i dont know how to explain what happened next as i never thought the human body could do this. at break time, when i stopped the machine, the music was still blaring away in my ears, and the one woman who hated that song, came up and was looking for my radio, now i could not hear her and had to asked a couple times what she was saying, she wanted to break the cassette tape i had playing that song, she could hear the music but could not find a radio, the closer she got to me, the better she could hear the song. appearently, the music was actually coming out of my ears. now, it has alweays been to my understanding that the human ear is supposed to work like a microphone so you can hear, not put sound out like a speaker.

so, until i find or hear of someone else who has done this, i think i shall hold myself as being the weirdest of them all, LOL.

whatthe75, the sand was a dark tan, and the beach was one i had never been to and the poeple i have never before seen in my life, oh, and if i remember correct, not a cloud in the sky. i was under a the shade of a large palm tree. now, at the start of the induction, for some reason i am walking with some dude, then all the sudden, i get flashed to the beach.

now i never seem to make it more than about half way through before i am so relaxed i pass out and dont wake up till my alarm goes off, so, i believe the file is good for those who, like me, suffer from insomnia. i cant explain it but, the story is just so boring but for some reason i continue to listen waiting to hear more, it is as if i really really want to hear this boring stuff for some reason, imagine this, my waking mind says no, but my subconsious mind says, hey now, i want more, i am taking over and you cant stop me. does that one make any sense to ya?

[Ladon]

[MacGyver]

she asked me where the radio was as she said she could swear she heard that song playing, and wandered where the music was coming from. i cant explain it, all i know is that it had happened. it left me kinda weirded out for a good week. a couple of the other women just gave me these weird looks.

trust me, i was not trying to harm the normals, LOL.

[Blink]

[MacGyver]

or could it be that somehow i managed to make her hear that song telepathically without knowing what i had done as it was a song i loved to play just to aggrivate her? but i am still curious why it was so loud as if i were at a rock concert.

must use my weirdness for good not evil
must use my weirdness for good not evil
must use, oh forget it, i am not gonna take the time to repeat that 100 times.

[whatthe75]

[Ladon]

[Blink]

[MacGyver]

he must have shaken her hand, LOL :twisted:

[Ladon]

Possibly, or he was able, through his testimony, to entrance at least a portion of those present in the courtroom. One of his many talents was the ability to induce a trance using almost anything, his posture, breathing, speech, motions, et cetera. He certainly was no charlatan in the traditional sense, I'd say had the grasp on hypnosis that Mozart had on music, it was completely natural for him in every way.

In a related but separate thought, going back to the visual/auditory discussion, I've had a thought that may work for me, but I'll have to experiment. I said earlier that if I am reading something, I may notice the sounds I hear, but I don't process speech well, if at all, when I'm reading, it goes 'in one ear and out the other.'

Maybe I'll choose a file with results that would be interesting, discernible, and relatively easy to reproduce (at least, results I think would be easy to do). I'd like to try a few experiments:

Listen while reading something technical (hypnosis book, NLP, etc)
Listen while reading fantasy material (LOTR, erotica, Sci-Fi)
Listen in one ear while playing a game (Oblivion, Half-Life)

I believe the first one may work the best, but fantasy might surprise me. I'd like to see if the words would 'slip into my subconscious' or just be ignored altogether. I'm not sure if I'll be able to try it in the near future, but once I do, I'll document the attempt here.