Theories about god

[nuit09]

[nuit09]

This, though it may look like it, is not an attempt by me to prostelytize. Far be it from me in my own state of sin to do so. I am attempting to explain obscured but central themes from the bible. There are biblical mysteries to explore even as i also explore occult mysteries elsewhere. in order to do so i must cover subjects as they are presented and sometimes obscured in the bible.

The purpose of the law in the bible is not to get into heaven. there is not one of us that can follow the law perfectly and even the slightest transgression of it is punisheable by the death of our immortal soul. The purpose of the law is not salvation. it is convict us and sentence us to death. The purpose of Christ was to pay that penalty for us. Salvation is by grace; not our merits. not our following the law. no man can do it. Not one. fortunate for us because if not everyone including every sanctimonious, smug, holier than thou, hypocritical christian would be "in the Barbie" along with the worst inhuman monster. A christian is not free from sin, he is only (conditionally) free of the consequences of that sin.

[charon2187]

I personally would not tell anyone that god existed. People who talk about god either get themselves killed, get other people killed, or both.

[nuit09]

with this theme i talked about earlier every seemingly barbaric genocidal command of an angry psychopathic God is explained as a result of the struggle to maintain the bloodline of Christ against the machinations of the descendants of Cain. Seems sort of important to know information, don't you think?

Also hidden in the bible is the concept of ages. That the creation in genesis describes two events. one at the beginning of time and one at the beginning of the present age. The bible does not support that the earth is just a few thousand years old. instead it supports that before those thousands of years the earth existed for an unspecified but vast period of time.

The bible also supports that Noah's flood was regional and not world wide. The original hebrew discriminates between world, kingdom, land, kingdom, region and so on but the english translation does not. also one word was mistranslated. It read "Was" instead of "became" and this puts together two verses that should be separated by geologic epochs of time. The bible also supports that there were people before adam was created.
There was a world wide flood. it did not occur in Noah's time but millions of years earlier.

Rapture doctrine is a satan spawned abombination that will kill millions of christians spiritually.

Finally, christmas should be in autumn. the exact date of christ's conception and birth is determinable from the bible in spite of not being given explicitly. This is so because it's exact relation to John the Baptist's conception and birth is mentioned and John's dates are given. Christ was not born on December 25. He was concieved on it. So it is still worthy of celebration for that reason.

[goldragon_70]

[SubmissMe]

Nobody knows what I truly think, I just play devils advocate in order to form an argument.

I'm surprised nobody has picked up on the fact that God gives blind hope, as we are not sure of his existence. It's not the same kind of hope as in "I hope the weather will improve" where we know that there is a chance of sunshine, even if it has not been forecast.

The hope God gives is slightly more ambiguous. It is blind hope, as technically we could never understand what exactly we are hoping for. Surely this kind of blind hope only leads to disappointment and dissaray?

And if we know there is no God, and subsequently no afterlife, then worldly possessions are all we have - thus making the temptation much greater to exploit our knowledge in order for personal gain.

[goldragon_70]

[SubmissMe]

I'm taking sides (sometimes on something I don't agree with) In order to keep a stable argument going.

I'd hate this forum to descend into a Monty Python 5-minute argument if you know what I mean.

[goldragon_70]

The only problem is it hard to make a rational argument in either way when it come to metaphysics. There have been test that have turn up measurements of hidden forces, but in all rationality it is labeled inconclusive, because there is no physics based answer. At the same timer there are other test, that have proven people shame artist. It makes it hard for one to really trust the other for true information.

[tnot]

there is nothing even remotley spiritual about the human experience. we are mearley the result of a universe so infinetley vast that a one in a million occurence like life can happen. if you think about it when you flip a coin theres a very very very small chance it will land on its side, but there is still a chance. if you flip the coin enough times it will eventually land that way. given enough space and time life was bound to happen. god is mearley a product of our fear of death. we fear death so much because our purpose as a race is to continue on, this most basic instinct makes us feel a need to continue our own existance past our demise giving us a greater purpose then we really have

[9hg7u]

i don't really know if i belvie in god or not, i'm sorta 50/50 about it right now, we are just on this ball of dirt and water (earth) just going for the ride

[Axiom]

The Pains of Sleep

Ere on my bed my limbs I lay,
It hath not been my use to pray
With moving lips or bended knees;
But silently, by slow degrees,
My spirit I to Love compose,
In humble trust mine eye-lids close,
With reverential resignation
No wish conceived, no thought exprest,
Only a sense of supplication;
A sense o'er all my soul imprest
That I am weak, yet not unblest,
Since in me, round me, every where
Eternal strength and Wisdom are.

by Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834)

I came across this by accident and found it very moving although I am not religious. Then I noticed that this could be a hypnotic induction so now I am wondering if prayer is a way of accessing the power of hypnosis.

Axiom

[Jack]

[Captain_Thunder]

Didn't read all 28 pages, just replying to the OP here:

I'm a big fan of reincarnation. I believe that the point of our existence is to gain knowledge, and in order to do that, we have to experience life more than once, and not just on earth, but other places as well, and in other forms.

Call me crazy, but that's essentially the philosophy I subscribe to.

I'm officially Catholic, BTW.

[Blink]

[yaar]

[Aestrius]

[bigC]

Well, i have a theory. Let's take a look at God from a scientific stand point. We move in 4 dimensions, up/down, left/right, forward/back, and constantly forward through time. God would have to be a being that transcends the fourth dimension, therefore existing outside of time. He would therefore be able to have existed before time began. In this higher dimensional existence, this being has the power to manipulate space and time, so he creates a Universe. In that universe, he sets events in motion that lead to the birth of many diverse people, places, things and ideas. He loves all of these things that were created because they are in a sense, his offspring.

A common misunderstanding about God is that he hates non-christians, this is entirely untrue. He loves every last person, all he wants is that they acknowledge him.

Wouldn't it just suck if your children didn't believe you cared, or even existed?

Also, please people, do NOT use christians as your example for what God is like, Christians are just people, and they are flawed like everyone else. Many Christians (at least the ones who actually get attention) are very hypocritical and don't even understand what they are preaching about.

This is just my own personal feeling, but i think it would actually take more faith for me to be an atheist than to be a Christian. If I'm an Atheist, and it turns out i'm wrong... oh shit. If I'm Christian and it turns out i'm wrong... Oh well.

[Follower]

[hypnointerest]

Pascal's Wager sickens me. If I'm Christian and it turns out i'm wrong..... This is not an oh well. This is an entire wasted life, holding back for something that doesn't exist. Denying yourself your most base urges and desires without any tangible reason whatsoever for all your years. Never trying anything new or dangerous or fun that may be considered a "sin" by a 2000 year old carpenter who was just trying to tell you "Don't be a dick. That is all." It takes a very slanted person to come up with such a ridiculous argument and a submissive, dependent person to believe it has actual merit.


The very nature of the wager is to designed to make you fear hell.
Christians are kept scared their entire life, not wanting to burn in their god's hell. This is the ONLY reason. Your all compassionate lord will throw you in the bbq if you are naughty. Hypothetically, if I believed in an omniscient, omnipresent godhead, they would be beyond such barbaric punishments. An all knowing being would not condemn you to an eternity of suffering because you enjoyed yourself while you were alive or did not pray enough. These are just the words of old men trying to scare you into religious servitude. Christianity teaches that even a good person can not get into heaven without becoming a Christian? REALLY?

Don't even try to tell me that Christianity is the only way to true morality. I know numerous people of different faiths that are so much closer to true morality that it makes the abuse of Christian dogma to keep the sheep subservient so much more sickening... if it weren't so sad they were wasting their life and shielding themselves from some of the most rewarding events they could experience.


Now that I've complained, I'll tell you my background.

Churchgoer until 18 when I was able to leave my house and make my own decisions. Christianity can be a decent guide to morality for some but more often than not is simply a tool to spread fear and demand obedience.

[Follower]

[hypnointerest]

I'd also like to clarify that I was attacking those who would use religion for selfish reasons, not true followers of a faith, and I hope I didn't come across as to antagonistic.

[1love]

Life as we know it, reality in our perception, is more or less like a tv channel that operates on a certain frequency. This is actually true as all matter in this universe oscillates in a certain range of frequencies. Who knows how many their are. Id say we are on channel three, due to the obvios limitations of our 3 dimensional life. Yes lets call these channels dimensions.
Now these dimensions operate on a frequency, Everything in our dimension operates on the same range. If the didn't well they just wouldn't exist in our dimension.
once you die you have no three dimensional body anymore so your free to go up a dimension or down one.
Now on to emotions. If you have measured the brain wave frequency of a positive emotion and a negative emotion, youll find the the more positive the emotion the higher the frequency. Obviosly the more negative an emotion the lower the frequency. Wich brings me back the the when you die part. When you die, everyone knows you see your life flash before you. now if you are content with the life you have led and have a POSITIVE emotional experiance about it, Then you will ascend to a higher dimention. If you are so so and want to try again. you reincarnate in the same dimension. If you were a horrible person and only experience pain and regret, You go down. Like a game of snakes and ladders.
With all of that out of the way i get to my final point. You may think yourself as unimportant, that there is an external god judging your actions. The only person that can truly judge you is your self, as you are god. YOU ARE GOD. you come from the matter of the universe. Therefore you are a part of the universe. You are the universe. And can you guess who you are In the very highest dimension?
You are god, you are the universe. you are everything that exists on any plane or dimention, every atom every being, every blade of grass.
That is who you truely are.
I experienced the higher dimension once. It was glorious and i lttle disorientating once i came back. Everything merged and became one. Everything. Its was like my consciousness had expanded to everything, and then when i came back i was left in the limitations of a 3rd dimention. Ive never felt quite the same since it happened.

[stephiebaby]

[DrFier]

I think similarly, but in the opposite direction; One mind, driven mad in solitude. In a sense, we are all God, and he is none of us.

[d-cell-x]

Why don't you try to study all the religions in this world, and then decide if one of them is true or none, and then make your decision.

[Glasnerven]

You could also look for religions which have empirical evidence outside of their sacred texts to support them. :lol:

[Chibi]

My beliefs about God and the afterlife are complex and rooted firmly in deductive logic, mathematics and evidence.

And yes, I do think the Bible is probably true. For a period of time I liked the Bhagavad Gita too, but there's less information about it for me to check if it is a reliable source.

By definition, there is simply no difference between a monotheistic God and reality iself. Both are omnipresent, all powerful, self limiting, capable of reason, etc. So regardless of Religion I will always believe in atleast a God.

Because it is impossible for 0 + 0 to make 1, I conclude that peices of consciousness must exist in matter necesserily for us to have become conscious. Eg, an oxygen atome contains atleast a peice of consciousness. And when the "big crunch" occurs all consciousness will come back together and become God united again, aka the afterlife.

So yeah.

[robindf1]

I don't believe in an afterlife or a god, as an agnostic atheist, blah blah blah, not enough evidence to support blah blah blah.

[Glasnerven]

[Chibi]

It does follow, but it is not easy to explain.

In the end, if it is not true then you are claiming that consciousness literally came from things completely devoid of consciousness. Which is literally the equivalent of saying 0 + 0 = 1. Do you believe that anything can come from that which does not exist (0)?

Can't a single silicon atom run skyrim? Do we understand enough about nature to say it doesn't already in a parallel universe kind of way? At best surely we don't know?

Either way, it is safe to say that the ability to pass all of the information for skyrim must exist in particles for them to pass through/by them to begin with. Even if not all at once.

I'm not saying they are always fully conscious, and I'm not saying they can always pass full amounts of information for a skyrim game, or always carry a human being a long distance. However the ability to do it is there, even if on varying scales at varying times.

And in the end, consciousness is just one of those things that are hard to judge by nature (We barely even know that each other are conscious), but mathematics however is meant to be absolute, and math does imply that it takes fragments of something to produce something.

[Tangy]

[Glasnerven]

[Chibi]

I know about emergence, but it is impossible for anything to emerge from something that doesn't already exist.

I think you are slightly mistaken, as I will explain:

Mechanical power is merely chemical reactions which cause physical movements, which all of the particles are capable of, if re-arranged.

The cars ability to move is a result of its particles abilities to move, if your cars particles couldn't move, neither could your car, it is a sum of its parts.

By your car example, our ability to be conscious must also come from our particles ability to be conscious. Just like the cars ability to move comes from its particles abilities to move.

[Chibi]

2. The main quality of a car is its ability to move and carry things.
And the main quality of a computer game is to carry information.

If their particles could not do these things also, then cars and computer games would not work. But particles do move, and particles do carry information in various forms.

Sure, cars and computer games as a whole can carry and move more (because they are a collection of particles), but I'm not claiming particles are fully conscious, just pieces of consciousness.

[robindf1]

...beliefs have changed somewhat of late. Christian now as of three days ago. It's far beyond me to know Him, but I'm willing to try.

[WME3]

I believe we all hold our own opinion, and that is alright.

No matter what you believe, we will all will have to take the same path to get there. And While that road has been worn, it will never stop seeing its use.

EDIT:
I believe in the saying that God is a force.
We are all just wavelengths of different variations, so would it be far fetched to say that the universe is one being? Omnipotence is really a physical matter, then. Physically waves are everywhere, and the universe is like a rock dropped in an ocean. Those ripples grow and grow, collide, and beat upon one another, but while individually we separate waves, together we can become in-sync, and experience something very few have ever felt:

Completeness.

That's my thoughts on it, my apologies for scaring away any other post with the original comment.

[accursedCursive]

I can disprove completely omnipotent/omniscient beings, but if you try and disprove finitely powerful deities through reason alone, you're gonna have a bad time.

As for the afterlife, I pretty much believe in [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2503370/Quantum-physics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html]this,[/url] although I had the idea long before and so I'm with a slightly more advanced, but still far from complete version of the theory, which doesn't rely on quantum mechanics.

[nickythenick]

-> return to source, drop payload, evaluate code, reload human image, re-iterate. Use senses, experience life, upon end session, goto line1.-