Have any of you read/listened to any of Jane Robert's stuff?

[megamanrulesall]

I was wondering if any of you have read/listened to any of Jane Robert's stuff. Especialy the Seth Speaks stuff. I put it here because some of the stuff talked about could be contreversal if you don't agree with what is being said. But hey that's okay. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Anyways, I would like to hear your thoughts on it. Myself, I have only listened to the first 2 audio files of Seth Speaks.

[VeryGnawty]

I've read a bit of the Seth material.

The ultimate problem with these "ascended" teachings, or any teaching in general, is that it is always pandering to an audience.

Some of the Seth material I really like. Some of it I don't.

[SubmissMe]

sounds metaphysical...........

[nuit09]

On that note: a problem according to magical lore with channeling beings at random is that you cannot trust that they are who they say and you cannot trust that what they say is true. Western Magicians despise mediums for that reason. mind you, they do their own channeling, but; they have devised a means of testing any resulting entity and material to alledgedly see if they are who they say and if what they say passes the "smell" test.

Fisrtly when they summon an entity that has not been verified they evoke it externally into a confineing triangle of the art. they never invoke an entity inside them unless it has been deliberately selected and is from the higher planes. They evoke lower entities and invoke gods and angels. and they always check IDs on the way in.

lower entities often misrepresent themselves as higher beings for purposes of affecting the material plane and mankind, ensnarement by deceit, obsession, possession, amusement, starting a cult, and inflicting misery on the contactee. Some lower entities such as nature spirits and elementaries mean no harm but will do a lot of the above because contact with humans evolves their spiritual status. a situation they desparately need to survive past judgement day according to the Kaballah which is a fundamental doctrine of the prime western traditions.

For that reason magicians make a very elaborate production of any summoning and do so only very carefully and with full verification every step of the way in the process. And they are aghast at mediums who give their bodies and souls to any random spook or entity with nary a care.

For that purpose the prime western traditions all have elaborate symbolic tables of coorespondences based upon the kaballah, astrology, and other such sources and which when the magician is familiar with, allows the magician to test the spirit's ID and statements.

Since they summon within the framework of that system the theory goes that such a test will produce true results. I fail to see why a spirit could not fake it's adherance to that system's logic. But at least the western mages try to fact check the channeled being and don't deliberately open themseves up for obsession or possession or being lied to at random.

[CuriousG]

LOL, spirits...

You guys crack me up.

[nuit09]

you wouldn't laugh if one bit you on the ass. and til one does your comments are without experential basis. you can only say you have seen no evidence. that is rational. but you cannot say others have no evidence. doing so is not rational.

absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.

[CuriousG]

Well, Nuit, it actually is to an extent. I ask: why, if these spirits and magic so evidently exist, and you and others seem to have known about them for a while, do so few people take them seriously? Wouldn't they be employed commercially, or are they just shy in the spotlight?

Sure, there have been other examples of incredible things first ridiculed and then accepted popularly. Germ theory, evolution, the standard model of the solar system, etc., but spirits and magic have actually seen a steady decline in popularity since the beginning of the enlightenment, after over a thousand years of illness being attributed to demons instead of pathogens, etc.

And yes, if a spirit bit me on the ass, I would believe in one. However, based on all my knowledge I can state with a significant degree of certainty that it won't happen if I live to be a hundred years.

[nuit09]

"Well i have been bit on the ass by a spirit so to speak so i have a different perspsctive on it.

as to the rest. magick has rules like electricity does. and on of those rules could be stated as magick current takes the path of least resistance. and it manifests in the material world such that spectacular effects, miracles, are rare occurances. if magick can get you money you request through seemingly mundane means then that is how it happens. further it cares not a whit for your own preferences as to how it happens. for example if you ask for a large sum of money and you manage to perfectly perform the complexities of effective magick then there is a chance someone you love and would never wish harmed will die and will it to you. because that is a more mundane happening than a bag of money falling out of the sky into your arms or winning the lottery.

[CuriousG]

Uh-huh...

I'm not impressed, Nuit, and I hope you can understand why.

[goldragon_70]

[nuit09]

i understand. but i cannot agree with your skepticism. my set of experiences includes spirits and magick. so despite the frustration of not being able to hand you a spirit in a mylar flask to disect and wiegh i must speak out when it is questioned.

[CuriousG]

[nuit09]

spirits are not material objects and therefoe have no physical signature except in rare cases. they exist in a realm of first causes. a precursor of the material world. for it to interact reqires the direction of intelligence acting in that dimension. or a person who can "see" into that realm of existance. but sight is not how they are detected. hearing is not how they are heard. the olfactory sense is not how they are scented. and the peripherial sensory nerves are not how they are felt. only rarely do they leave a mundanely understood physical impression at all. momentary and ephemeral. like a particle that exists for a moment and then transforms to other things. dissappearing from the ken of man. unless you were there at the precise spot ant the precise time that the particle was there your instruments measure nothing.

[goldragon_70]

[CuriousG]

So?

If they're detectable by man in ANY way, then it's an awfully sorry state of affairs that man cannot built a contrivance to detect them as well. Such lack could only be facilitated by 1 of 3 things.
1) lack of ingenuity
2) lack of technology
3) lack of spirits

Frankly, the fact that the first 2 would have to be almost utterly complete makes me suspect the third.

[Jack]

[SubmissMe]

No, millions of people experience a bump in the night or a door slamming shut or a chill on the back of one's neck. But rather than think the wind or simply a cold room, some put this down to spirits. These are often the same people who believe in alien abduction and sleep in a room with lots of padding in a white jacket.

Ok so maybe that was harsh, the idea of spirits has healing connotations for some especially over the passing of a love one. And we'd like to believe in spirits becuase it gives us a feeling of being watched over.

But if spirits exist, so does the tooth fairy. Science doesn't have the technology to properly detect tooth fairys and so therefore I cannot be completely proved wrong therefore my idea is 100% solid and coherent in every possible way.

[chicklet]