Placebo and Delusions

[baby_jessica75]

I have seen many times in these forums people using the terms placebo and delusions to describe the out come of files to people who believe the files to be working for them. What I don't understand is why anyone else cares if the person using the file is delusional if what they believe makes them happy? if a friend meets a significant other and frinds true happiness with them and truely thinks that they are very attractive when in reality they look somewhat like a story tale troll (sorry for those who find trolls attractive just not my taste!) would it be right for us to push our viewpoint across to this person and ruin thier happiness just to pull them back to what we believe reality to be? who deciedes who's reality is real anyway? who is the true judge of reality? or is reality just what the majority of the population agrees to be reality? and as far as placebo people have commented that this is placebo and that is placebo because it did not work for them now my question for that is does something have to work the same for everyone for it to work? if this is the case then can someone explain to me why thier are so many anti-depressants on the market? a doctor will tell someone that if this pill doesn't work then they will find one that does so does that mean that all of these pills are just placebos? if something works for someone and they are happy with the results that they get in thier lives from it than does it really matter why or how it worked for them? to me if someone is happy with how a file affected them than doesn't it mean that the file was a positive experience if for no other reason it made them happy? if someone believes a file is going to do what they want done in thier lives and they are happy about finding it isn't this a positive experience if for no other reason that it brought them some happiness for a little while? isn't the chance for happiness worht the risk of maybe future disappointment? or are all of these things delusions I just choose to hang on to? you be the judge!

[BobbyS]

A friend once told me thought cough sweets didn't really do anything and any ease they caused was purely a placebo effect. I said "so what if it still helps your sore throat?".

As to whether hypnosis itself is a placebo effect, I would actually argue that it is since so much expectation of what the hypnosis will be like and how it will affect you CAN actually influence how the hypnosis pans out. That said, scientific research has been conducted into the hypnotic state and although we don't know why we have it or why we'd need it, we do know it's there.

Ultimately though, like I said at the start of the post - who cares whether it's real or not. As long as you get the effect you wanted from hypnosis (without any downsides) that's all that matters.

[baby_jessica75]

[steve14]

[bdbu]

the reason it gets brought up so much here is because half the people never actually go into trance and just role play. a quick look at the "show me your..." photo galleries is more than enuff prove of that. but honestly there is a huge different between using binaural beats and true hypnosis. the effects of binaural beats on the brain are purely hypothetical and made up by hippies who think waking life is a good movie and kid a is an awesome album.

[baby_jessica75]

[BobbyS]

bdbu, can you leave binaurals out of this? This is a thread pondering whether HYPNOSIS is a placebo effect.

As for roleplay, that's NOT the same as a placebo effect. A placebo effect is when someone gets the effect they were expecting from something that didn't actually do anything.

To jessica - with regards to my post - perhaps a quick revision is in order. I'd say hypnosis CAN be a placebo effect to an extent. People who expect hypnosis to be a very powerful thing can sometimes go very deep purely due to their own expectations. So in that respect it is like a placebo.
That said, it isn't a requirement that you expect anything of hypnosis to be able to be hypnotised.

[bdbu]

i thought this was in response to me thats why i clarified that binaurals and hypnosis are way different. and i mention role players because thats what generates so many skeptics.

[baby_jessica75]

I will post these here as well to maybe clear up the binaural situtation

[url]http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:mumW-ZlcK7UJ:www.cosmicegg.org/binaural%2520beat.pdf+binaural+beats+scientific&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us [/url]
[url]http://www.centerpointe.com/about/articles_research.php[/url]

I can not attest to the validity of this research and I am not in any way saying this proves anything for sure but I figured I would do my due dilligance and see what I could find on the subject. the only suggestion I can give anyone about binaurals is give them a try with an open mind and if they work for you use them and if they don't don't use them. don't depend on scientific reasearch to make up your mind for you. because everyone admits that each person is differant (even doctors and scientist) so just because something did or did not work for the majority of people in the control groups they used it may have nothing to do with how it will affect a unique person such as yourself (whoever you may be)

[baby_jessica75]

[bdbu]

the problem with binaurals is the science behind them suggests that it should work the same for everyone. i mean a theta wave is a theta wave and a sine wave is a sine wave there isnt any variables that would make it work for one person or another. unlike hypnosis which depends on ur own mind a lot.

[baby_jessica75]

I do have a serious question about weather the placebo effect is real or not. the study says that the majority of the people who felt relief from symtoms were only on a subjective basis as to weather they felt better. but is it not true that with many aliments that even with medical treatments the outcomes would be based on how the person felt after treatment so if we are going to dismiss the placebo effect because of this wouldn't it mean that we would have to dismiss the medical treatments on the same grounds? and it also states that the occurance of something non-subjective like blood pressure was low which means it did happen and if it did happen it would mean that it is possible wich would mean that even though it is unlikly to be a valid treatment for everyone it was a valid treatment for some so it would be wrong to dismiss it completely just on the idea that it is rare. I guess what confusses me is just that we dismiss things on the idea that the sucess was not wide spread but isn't limited sucess still sucess all the same? does it not seem that we are saying that just because it isn't what is the majority of the results then it is somehow invalid. I personally feel that if I was aware of one person in the world who had been scientifically proven to change gender through hypnosis then that would let me know that it was humanly possible even if one hundred people who tried could not reproduce the results. so I pose the question once again does something have to work for everyone for us to accept that it is possible?

[baby_jessica75]

[Henrique]

[Wildsprite]

[Jack]

[url=http://skepdic.com/placebo.html]Read this[/url].

Everything is hypnosis.
Nothing is hypnosis.

I find it hilarious that all medications are tested against a hypnotic tool.[/quote]

[baby_jessica75]

[Darkmind]

[baby_jessica75]

ok but in a study where 30% of the people taking a placebo showed improvement and 60% of the people taking the medicine showed improvment. wouldn't it stand to reason that if one out of every three of the people on the placebo showed the same improvement that the 60% on the medicine. then at least 10% of the people on the medicine had what they refere to as a placebo effect so that would raise the placebo percentage up to 40%. shouldn't something like this be taken into account in these studies. alot of studies report that 30% or higher get better on the placebo so in other words you have a 40% chance of being able to heal or get better on your own without the risk of the drug. while handing out cabnits full of drugs the doctors should be obligated to point this out because I honestly believe that if it was widely known that these thing can and do cure themselves maybe a majority of people would choose to allow thier bodies to heal itself. thenagain maybe not. I do know that I haven't been to the doctor in ten years and I have felt great in those ten years I guess this is another one of those things of if it isn't broke don't fix it.

[BobbyS]

[baby_jessica75]

[Darkmind]

[Jack]

I wonder if anyone has ever done any studies on how often there are "side effects" in the placebo groups, and what kinds(if any) are common to varying illnesses..

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

[baby_jessica75]

[baby_jessica75]

[Darkmind]

[baby_jessica75]