Morality

by **Mortal** » June 22nd, 2005, 5:39 am

No one asked anyone to become a Christian or read the Bible. If that is not your way then that is fine. I am interested in others and their beliefs. I believe it's what set us apart.

Emotion can not be manifested in someone. It can already be there and someone manipulate it but that doesn't change the fact it can't be manifested. Guilt is such an emotion.

There is more than one way to com about a solution, I already said that. That doesn't change the fact that there is only one three. The number three is always the number three add or subtract the smallest fraction and you no longer have the number three. 18 / 6 is three but it's just another way to write it. Nothing changes the value of three.

The occult is not sinful. The actions of humans are. There is nothing wrong with the occult if you have goodness in your heart. The problem is that in order to have goodness you must have intellectual and emotional honesty. Which is a trait very scarce in today's society.

by **Linja** » June 22nd, 2005, 6:08 am

Ok, I feel a bit cautious about entering this, especially in this forum... but here goes...

With what you were saying about 3.
4-3
6/2
18/6
They all equal three, and so they are all the same.
They may appear different, but really they are the same thing, because they all equal 3. They are all 3, therefore they are the same.
3=4-3
3=6/2
3=18/6
So, they are all the same thing, except they are merely different attributes to the number 3, but they arn't different in themselves.
So in that manner, I'm kinda with Mortal.

I'm not sure if you understand what I'm trying to get at here, because I feel shakey on it myself. I guess I'm just trying to say that because they all equal 3, and to equal means to be the same (for the particular ones, look it up in a dictionary), so arn't they the same thing? Using deductive reasoning, it makes sense... I dunno... I'm tired...

Sorry I messed up.

-Linja

by **Mortal** » June 22nd, 2005, 7:21 am

You did a much better job than I did. However, I go the sense that in some way you were disagreeing with me but I couldn't see where that was.

The only other bone to pick was the 4-3=3 But I'm sure that was a typo.

I am curious to here more Linja.

by **drydreamer** » June 22nd, 2005, 11:22 am

I feel that morality is primarily determined by whatever culture you happen to live in. Religion tries to dictate morality based on it's own doctrine; however this mostly fails to turn anyone away from what they see in the society around them, and actually has the effect of creating hypocrites. I also believe in reincarnation, so I think there are moral beliefs that are carried from one physical lifetime to the next. So if you lived in another culture in a past life, that may make it hard for you to deal with the morality in your present culture. But the law of karma transcends all feelings or teachings about morality, because the energy you put out is the same energy you get back. What goes around comes around. It works whether you believe it or not. drydreamer

by **makidas** » June 23rd, 2005, 1:47 am

by **Linja** » June 23rd, 2005, 2:33 am

by **Mortal** » June 23rd, 2005, 5:38 am

Thank you Linja even if you do believe you may be wrong. I must admit I have made some errors but I also have been the target of much rage. I, like everyone has, do get 'bouts of arrogance. You're right the last line of my post was of a morally superior position and for that I also apologize as I always try to remind myself I am no different than anyone.

DayDreamer,
Where are your beliefs of Karma and reincarnation born from?

Makidas,
The real reason I am here is as I have stated. I have learned much from being here. The most knowledge comes from strife not agreement. We must agree to disagree on the manifestation of emotion. I happen to believe if the emotion is there then it can be manipulated but you can't create the emotion. I apologize if you felt like you were being preached too. I have strived not to do it. I haven't agreed with many but it is because I truly enjoy being different. I hate to be like the crowd. It is a truly strange quirk of my psyche. I have agreed with some and some have agreed with me. My point with the number is as Linja stated. the value of 3 is always 3. The rest are attributes. As with your example of a baby. A girl is a girl. There may be another attribute but that doesn't change the girl question. As for ethics and morals if you look them up in dictionary.com then you will see they reference each other. They are synonyms. Ethics just usually refers to a profession and morals to your personal life. The problem with following the bible verbatim is that times change. In the beginning of the Gospel Jesus also refers to the Gentiles in a negative light but by the end they are to be welcomed into the fold. If you are to read the bible you must take into consideration the times that things were written.

Linja,
A scientific thinker? I should be able to get along well with you. I am also against organized religion and "The Church". However, I do consider myself to be a Christian as I am a student of Christ. Perhaps I will be able to get my meaning across to you and since you know the people on here better you could explain it (which doesn't mean convert you I am just trying to explain my point of view). I am frustrated as people on here have accused me of not explaining my position and avoiding the word God and once I explained and started using it then they blast me for preaching.

Basic question, Linja. What are your views on the 7 virtues and 7 mortal sins which as someone pointed out somewhere are not "necessarily" from the bible (and not all Christian either)?

by **drydreamer** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:39 am

Mortal, my name here is drydreamer, not daydreamer. That's the opposite of a wet dream. My beliefs in reincarnation and karma are the result of a life-long process of elimination. I started off not really believing in any formal belief system (despite what I may have said at the time. Sometimes we try to fool ourselves, but if you're too honest it doesn't work.) Then I basically became a dabbler in different belief systems for many years as I slowly eliminated the ideas that didn't seem to work in real life. For example, I came to believe that it's quite impossible for a mortal human being to actually LIVE by the directives in the Bible because they demand absolute perfection. I tried being a good Christian for about twelve years before I realized I'd have to either quit or blow my brains out. Meanwhile, I had some exposure to the idea of reincarnation in college when I took a philosophy course. Socrates believed that his spirit was the only permanent part of him, and that it existed before his body, and would continue after his body. I decided that this was a very logical belief, because it made everything seem very organized; and I also had some vivid dreams that could not be explained in the context of my present lifetime. So I went to see a psyhic who did a past-life reading on me. She told me I was currently in my 375th physical incarnation; and one of the past lives she read was very similar to a recurring dream I had been having. However, I do not claim that this is objective PROOF of the reality of reincarnation. Everyone must prove it to themselves; because it's a spiritual truth, and as such, cannot be proven scientifically. Karma is not really a belief, but rather a PRINCIPLE. That's because it works in real life, whether you believe it or not. If you put out positive energy, you WILL get positive energy back (if not right away, then later.) Don't believe what I say, just observe the world around you and honestly seek the truth. drydreamer

by **Mortal** » June 23rd, 2005, 7:33 am

Sorry for the name. I was reading the posts and Linja referred to you that way and so I assumed (and you know what that means) and copied him. I deeply apologize.

In fact I don't disagree with you at all and I find it very fascinating. I do believe in karma as you describe it. I also believe reincarnation to be a possibility (although I would not say I have adopted it, yet, as nothing has swung me one way or the other). I also must thank you for not dismissing me off-hand because others on this site have.

I have heard the argument that Christianity demands perfection but I must ask what led you to that conclusion. Some "churches" try to demand that but usually are full of hypocrites with the "Good Christians" being a rarity. I consider myself to be a good christian and about as far from perfect as they come. Everyone reading has seen me "slip-up".

I appreciate a person being "too honest" with themselves but I must disagree with the "too". I don't believe there is such a thing.

I would like more information on Christianity and Absolute Perfection but I will inform in advance that as I have heard it before I'm sure we will have to delve deeper than just the reply. :)

by **drydreamer** » June 24th, 2005, 7:03 am

Mortal, when I was going through my "good Christian" phase, I was a member of a non-denominational fundamentalist church that was very strict. It was a pyramid structure where everyone had an "elder" or "shepard" over them who would basically tell them what to do. I was told that even if I prayed and thought God had given me a direction, I still had to do what my elder said regardless of what it was. The reasoning behind this was that I was a young Christian and could not be trusted to hear God clearly. So instead of praying and trusting God to lead me, I was basically just a slave who had to do as he was told. It was not a very spiritual experience at all, and was actually a form of mind control. So it took me many years to go through my process of questioning the authorities in the church and asking myself "what's wrong with this picture?" They were even telling me what clothes to wear and which women to date (even though all dates were chaperoned!)

I'm sure the question you have about my allegation that Christians have to be perfect is based on God's offer of forgiveness in the Bible. However, this supposedly free gift actually comes with some big strings attached. The biggest string is the one that says you have to turn your back on the sin and NEVER do it again! I cannot make that promise to God or anyone else. I would be lying to God if I tried to say that. My body WILL betray me, and I WILL sin again. Why? Because I am just a mortal man. I cannot be perfect. Trying to live that way will lead me to failure and despair. I will constantly be apologising for my human weaknesses. So instead I ask this question: How can a set of laws be the will of God if it is impossible for anyone to live by them? Any belief system that is impossible to live by is seriously flawed!

I say the same thing about Scientology, which I also tried for a short period of time. That belief system claims that Man invented God, and is superior to God! But I can't be perfect for the Scientologists either. They would have me constantly evaluating myself and cleaning out the impediments to my own superiority. I'd much rather just be a mortal human being and enjoy myself here in the physical world as much as I can. When my body dies, I'll go back to the spirit world where I can evaluate my progress as an individual and decide if I want to be reincarnated again. But in the spirit world, you can't have any physical fun, so I'm going to have as much of that as I can while it lasts! LIFE is everlasting, but the physical pleasures are only temporary.

drydreamer

by **BobbyS** » June 25th, 2005, 7:37 am

I don't think any of the files on this site are IMMORAL. I think some of them are utterly repulsive, but that's just my point of view. After all, no one makes you download the file, and it's your own fault if you end up having to pay EMG x number of dollars because you're incontinent or you've got an invisible butt plug.

by **Mortal** » June 25th, 2005, 9:53 am

DryDreamer,
That was quite a life. I definately can't say my opinion would be any different if I had an upbringing like that. It is truly sad when people pervert things to such a level.
About the perfection. I can't disagree with most of your logic. However, I don't read that God has any strings on his forgiveness.
I am curious if you have any children? I don't mean to get personal but if not then my argument won't mean as much as it would otherwise. I see in the Bible they have placed God as the Father for a reason. With kids You truly love them and can forgive them for their mistakes. You tell them not to do things and sometimes you can see in them that they are just going to go out and do it anyway. It doesn't necessarily anger you (but it might a little) and you tell them not to do it again and they swear they won't. This cycle continues for years and eventually they see where their mistake truly is and stop doing the behavior. Once this happens they no longer understand why they did it in the first place. This is the view I have of God, the Father. That all the warnings in the bible are for our own good even though we may be too childish to see it. Does that make any sense? Probably not if you don't have kids. Sorry.

BobbyS,
I agree, no inanimate object is ever immoral as immorality is a human behavior. However, objects may be created with an immoral intent and may have little use otherwise.

by **gregi696** » June 26th, 2005, 4:34 pm

I admitt that I skimmed through most of the posts on this thread, so please forgive me for anything that has already been said. I agree that these files are not morally wrong. EMG has stated that he will not create files to unwittingly hypnotise people. A moral decision? I think so, but also probably a legal one as well in a sue-happy society today. Point being, we are all here of our own choices and likewise, we use these files of our own choices.
However, I do believe that this site and the files on it do violate "Social norms" and in that respect we are all "deviant." I do not mean this in a bad way, but from a mostly objective view, that is how I see it.
One last thing, I go to college in the "Bible Belt," and I don't see religion discussed this much. :wink:

by **drydreamer** » June 27th, 2005, 10:50 am

I wish it WASN'T discussed this much, gregi! Please Mortal, can you just let it go? I didn't come here to discuss religion, and it won't do anyone any good to try preaching at me. I've heard it all before because I used to be the preacher, and I'm not interested anymore. Whether the Bible agrees with the reality of my life or not, I could care less. I'm sorry I told my story because now someone might think I want to be changed and I DO NOT. I'm GLAD I escaped from the Bible thumpers that ruined my life, and a team of horses couldn't drag me back. And to answer your question Mortal, no I don't have any kids; and the little anecdote about father's forgiving their kids did not make any fireworks go off. I refuse to go through the rest of my life apologizing for my own humanity. My body is NOT the temple of the holy spirit, it's just a body that I can have some fun with for a little while. Please! No more preaching! It's not doing any good here. drydreamer

by **Mortal** » June 28th, 2005, 5:27 am

If you don't wish to talk then don't. I've never even attempted to force or lure anyone into this discussion. I've also only participated in 2 others. I must ask why you return to it and read it if it doesn't interest you. I haven't ventured into any threads on this site that the titles or topics haven't interested me in one way or another.

by **drydreamer** » June 28th, 2005, 6:10 am

I was just trying to be nice and answer your questions, Mortal. But please don't ask me anymore. I used to be like you, and I know you are going to inject religion into everything you touch, because that's what I used to do. Live and let live! drydreamer

by **Mortal** » June 28th, 2005, 6:33 am

You may not have a value to my opinion at all but if so I would suggest a book titled "My Descent into Death" it is a very good book and may work with your belief system. Just a suggestion.

by **sandy82** » June 28th, 2005, 4:44 pm

by **Mortal** » June 28th, 2005, 5:32 pm

Sensitive Sandy? Childish insults really don't bother me.

by **sandy82** » June 28th, 2005, 5:41 pm

by **Mortal** » June 28th, 2005, 5:56 pm

While I do tire sometimes of reading loooooong boring posts designed to try and prove worth. I am having a good time on this site and I'm not ready to leave yet. I find it interesting how defensive everyone gets over a single dissenting opinion. How is it that I offer such a threat to so many? It's almost like I have a supernatural force on my side.

Love,
Mortal

by **sandy82** » June 28th, 2005, 6:50 pm

by **dharden** » July 1st, 2005, 10:40 am

by **gurlbidesign** » July 31st, 2005, 9:09 pm

And it hurt no one, do what thou wilt.

by **nicosali** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:57 pm

I dont believe in the "moral" of the society I believe what it's wrong or right for me but I dont apply that to other people . I believe in tolerance also. perhaps this is off topic but the fact that are many diferences between people makes life interesting .
cheers

Morality

Morality

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