files causing mental illness

[Jacoburline]

I can only say that those kinds of files go with the territory to some extent. Most of the people here have already ventured into an area that the majority of the population would find questionable... The strength of this Website is that we are allowed to explore these areas as we please, so long as we do not force others to do so who are altogether unwilling (dominance/submission themes aside.)

The important thing to consider is that all of the people here are supposed to be adults and therefore held accountable for their decisions. If someone wants to listen to a file that causes what you called "serious mental illness," that is his or her decision, and the consequences of that decision reside with that individual.

Now, I do think there might be cause for tighter standards in terms of making sure that files explicitly state all of the major long-term or temporary effects they have. However, the only way to accomplish this would involve a large effort on the part of a few people (to make sure that the judgment would be fairly even) to listen to every recording objectively and make sure all of the major suggestions are notated...and unfortunately, that is not really a likely event.

So, this is my basic point: The responsibility of what files someone does or does not listen to ultimately rest with that individual. If someone listens to a file and hears suggestions he or she does not like or that were not included in the description of the file, then he or she must choose whether or not to continue listening to that file. The fact of the file's presence did not force him or her to listen to it, and so there is no real reason to restrict the freedom of someone to post any particular file.

Now, obviously, there is a bit of a different scenario with files the encourage illegal activities. These should definitely be restricted; I doubt many would disagree on that point.

[uw_onsterfelijk]

Could you be more specific? List some of these files you deem potentially harmful/illegal?

- uw_

[EMG]

I'll throw my 2 cents into the fire here(and may move this to another forum as this isn't exactly a site improvement).

Do I like the file, NO, I would never even consider listening to it for it's intended results and I wouldn't ask anyone that I like to listen to it.

However, the file states EXACTLY what it is about, it doesn't lie, it warns that you could end up depressed and is that REALLY that much worse than my file that leaves you feeling degraded and humiliated if you don't lose weight. That tells you you're fat and the only way you'll have worth is to lose weight.

The files on this site represent choices, choices that people make that they believe will make their life better(or at least the way they want it). Not many of us will ever listen to Living on the Floor, but to some people it speaks. I know what my fetish's are, and I know that everyone else has theirs. I try not to step on those unless it involves something blatantly illegal.

So, I just have to ask my users to be careful in their decisions, to know themselves and to ask for help if something feels wrong.

Play safe, sane and consensual, it's not just for BDSM anymore ;)

[Liann]

I find it ironic that somebody who makes files advocating guys should get their cocks chopped off thinks other files cause severe changes in vulnerable people.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Jacoburline]

Thanks EMG; I agree with your position wholeheartedly.

[gwyn]

[sarnoga]

Greetings,

Some nice and thoughtful comments by so many. EMG's comments are very well made, yet I just cannot resist throwing in a few of my own thoughts for everyone's consideration.

I, for one, loath censorship.

The strength of this site is freedom of expression. There is a general theme that most files are of a sexual nature. EMG seems to interpret that fairly loosely and gives wide latitude in the content of the files posted. As this site has evolved a wide variety of interests have been welcomed and tolerated.

A prominent feature of this site is that those who come here to share or use files are allowed to make their own choices. EMG has done, and is doing, an excellent job of making and keeping this site a place where people can do exactly that; make their own choices rather than having others make those choices for them.

Freedom of choice promotes and encourages freedom of expression. Freedom of expression in turn cultivates the kind of variety that is found here. The variety found on this site in turn encourages more participation, and more expression. It stimulates creativity which adds to the variety. Everyone benefits. This community and the files available here continues to grow.

Censorship stifles creativity which in turn limits choices. It begins a vicious cycle of fear and repression and is the opposite of what we have here, what we have come to enjoy and depend on, what we dare to expect.

Before anyone starts using the DSM to define what should or should not be permitted on this site as a subject for a file, remember, it was not that long ago that the DSM listed homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder. The DSM still has a long list of sexual disorders that include, Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Transvestic Fetishism, Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder, Male Erectile Disorder, Male Orgasmic Disorder, Premature Ejaculation and a host of others. And one doesn't have to look too hard to find past examples of masturbation being viewed as both a mental and medical problem.

One might want to exercise caution before relying on the advise of psychiatrists and physicians, especially in sexual matters and what is acceptable. There were numerous psychiatrists and physicians who, in the not too distant past, would use various devises and means of genital torture to cure masturbation. They seemed to have no shortage of disturbed parents willing to pay to have their children cured of such deviant practices. If the patient continued to masturbate after being subject to the use of such devises and genital torture they would sometimes resort to surgery and finally, if necessary, castration, as it was considered less harmful than chronic masturbation.

I think EMG has the right approach in determining what is acceptable on this site. I would urge him not to make any changes.

As for there being "number of files on the site that intend to cause serious menthal [sic] illness - depression, anorexia, etc..", without naming any specific files there really is no way to even have a public dialog about what is or should be acceptable or unacceptable. There is no way to even discuss with particularity what is desirable or undesirable.

There may very well be files here that some find offensive, disgusting, degenerate, or possibly even harmful. It does not necessarily follow that such files should be removed or censored.

If someone can point to a particular file that promotes unlawful harmful violence directed at an unwilling party, they might get me to agree that it should be removed.

Regarding the subject matter of files on this site, EMG said, "I try not to step on those unless it involves something blatantly illegal." Of course, EMG does not need anyone's agreement, much less mine, to remove a file he deems unacceptable for his site. However, as stated, what EMG said would probably result in removing more files than I would remove. Blatant illegality alone would not bother me unless that illegality would cause problems for the site or would result in serious harm to someone other than one who made a knowing decision to listen to the file.

On the other hand, we do have a forum available here to discuss files. The fact that I am against censorship of files does not mean that I am against discussion of files and their merits or lack thereof.

Catgirl, if you or someone else wants to point out what you perceive as a problem file, or problems with a file, harm that you think it could or may cause, or is likely to cause, the forum is a good place for that. While I would object to a file being censored or removed, except in the most extreme cases, I have absolutely no objection to you, or anyone else, pointing out possible problems with files or warning of harmful effects you think may have not been considered by potential users. Rather than having the stifling effects of censorship it can promote healthy debate and discussion about what is desirable in a file and what users might want to consider before trying a file.

Such discussions in the forum may also aid authors in considering possible effects in files that they might have otherwise not considered. However, such discussions are more likely to be fruitful if the specific file being objected to is named so everyone understands exactly what is being discussed.

I loath censorship. One of its opposites is open debate.

If you see a file you feel is bad or harmful, come here and name it. Be specific about what the problem is. Make people aware of it. Talk about it, discuss it. Then, bad or not, lets leave it there unless it goes so far beyond the bounds of acceptability that it cannot be tolerated. In all the time I have been here I have only seen one file I thought was so bad it should be removed, and it was. Of course I don't know what others EMG might have removed without my notice, not counting those removed for other reasons such as not being full files but only teasers advertising another site. So what is that for a percentage, 1 in about 2300 files.

Lets not start making up additional rules and guidelines for making files. The rules we now have seem to be working fine. Any problem files that should arise can be discussed publicly and if anyone still considers them so blatantly illegal they should not be allowed here they bring them to EMG's attention so that he can evaluate them and make a decision.

Thanks for reading,

Sarnoga.

[Liann]

Any file which promotes M2F mindset, also inherently promotes SRS. One follows the other like night follows day. Don't play word games with me, missy. Not every body will go all the way, but you know some percentages will. From an outsider's perspective, you ARE promoting men to get their cocks chopped off -- they don't make the fine distinctions you might -- being female means bye-bye Mr. Happy.

In current society public sissification and public crossdressing carries a risk of hate crimes, to the point that the US passed special hate crimes laws this past year or so to protect the at-risk population. Doing legal but frowned on things should not give the insanely violent any permission to act out their evil.

Pushing a vulnerable person over the line with suggestions, where their native caution was over-ruled, can cost a person just as much danger of physical damages as any anorexia file.



That said, you don't know the circumstances of people who listen to each file -- you can only guess.

Based on experience I know that some people are better off giving in to their female desires than resisting them, even if it carries higher risk of being damaged by insane haters, or leads to surgical removal of an unsightly birth defect in the genital area.

In fact, if more sissies gave into their repressed desires there would be larger support networks, more voters pushing for law enforcement for hate crimes, and less novelty to trigger programmed haters to violence. Familiarity breeds boredom, not hate-crimes.

There would be more t-gurls setting roll models and public examples for those others suffering gender mismatch.


Aneroxia files very well may have a greater beneficial effect than negative.

TGs often need to shed weight to fit their ideal body image and fit the clothing sold off the rack. Who wants a tub-of-lard Go-Go girl?

Getting rid of blubber might be a better health outcome than keeping it -- fat kills too you know.

Maybe somebody is ready for a drastic purge.

Fat also stores all kinds of nasty fat-soluble chemicals, like pesticides, which store up for decades. Promoting change-over of body fat, with vigorous exercise to force disposal of wastes, is actually a rather healthy thing to do.


Far fewer people die from too little fat (at least in western cultures, where food is cheap and easily available) than die from overweight complications.


Why not offer weight-loss sessions, with a WMM erotic angle and attraction to steal away customers from the file you worry about?

How about pushing good body image files? It takes six months for a fill to pass into free, so you better get started if you want it widely available by May 2011.

[uw_onsterfelijk]

The site OWNER replied to catgirl stating his opinion and stance on her concerns... and this is a continued heated discussion why?

Judge not less ye be judged yourself. And when you are judged, it's not from your own view point!

[DKaiser]

[uw_onsterfelijk]

[gwyn]

[Liann]

[gwyn]

[uw_onsterfelijk]

The file in question should stay, but this thread on the other hand... needs deleting!

[fabisandine]

[gwyn]

My recommendation is, as every viewpoint has been represented, and EMG has made his own statement on the matter, this thread should be abandoned, and the status of the file should be decided by those actually in charge of the file, the creator and EMG. No one else has any authority, so whinging on about it is pointless.

[zapnosis]

nothing is completely safe,
nothing is completely sane,
nothing is completely consensual.

It is as easy to be an alarmist as it is to be careless. But I have known a couple of people with eating disorders and what struck me from their stories was how difficult these disorders can be to shake off. Then again, a little while back I was asked to make a weight loss file for a submissive and, being satisfied that they had people around who would be monitoring their diet, I agreed. I wouldn't have published it, I didn't - that was just a little too much responsibility for me to take. But this is a human judgement that people have to make for themselves in their own particular context. I respect that.

I also wonder if Catgirl has thought about the fact that this thread will only increase the number of people downloading that file??

[zzzzz]

ethical standards for atomic bombs?

:oops:

[Calimore]

[sarnoga]

[sarnoga]

[gwyn]

[DKaiser]

Well, I did enjoy the popcorn. And after such a long post, clearly you're deserving of some too. *hands popcorn to Sarnoga*

[sarnoga]

[buttlicker79]

This has been such an enlightening thread. I'm glad I read thru the entire thing.

[Kimber1]

As a participant of this site, my thoughts are:
1. A few comments reference "censorship". Well, if its a matter of ethics, that is one thing, if it is a matter of illegal activity, that is another. I am not being "censored" when the law says I cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theater. On the other hand, it might be censorship if I were prohibited from writing an article saying "the movie sucked." So, if we are going to toss words like "censorship" into the discussion, lets use those words with some care.

2. The person who establishes a website, and publishes/operates a business in the US may face civil or criminal liability if he or she facilitates the commission of a crime.

3. I don't have any idea whether any files here would fall in that category, but if they do, they are fair game for being deleted.

4. In the US, it is common for medical practitioners to assist men with their gender issues, so I can't imagine that the fem files are a problem.

5. In the US, it is possibly unethical or even illegal for medical practitioners to facilitate a patient's commission of illegal activity. Can a person/web site operator be sued for damages or be put in jail for facilitating mental illness in another? I don't know.

6. It is EZ for anybody outside the US or who does not run this web site to whine about censorship. Would you pitch in for EMG or Catgirl's legal fees .... That's what I thought. Your ass isn't on the line.

7. Many of us really, really would be very sad to see anything bad happen to this site or the people who operate it.

8. So, time to get off the high horse and support EMG &/or Catgirl with whatever is decided on the issue. Liann, it is definitively resolved in the US that gender therapy is not illegal, and gender issues are NOT mental illness.

[sarnoga]

[Icono]

Any file which cultivates an obsessive, negative perception of your appearance is seeding a bodily dysmorphic disorder. These are difficult to overcome, and people who suffer from them not only have their lives destroyed but also face a significantly higher suicide rate.

The people making these files, and those who are downloading it as a motivational tool to loose weight, are dangerously ignorant on the risks involved.

I'm all for letting people have freedom to their own self destruction, but geeze. Why are these files being made? I doubt it's just a protest to reaffirm freedom of speech.

[ohyouknow]

[bandler]

[Icono]

Oh, I'm quite sincere. But I'm not talking about rights or censorship or even morality; just motivation. That's the angle that gets people uncomfortable.

There are Pro-Ana communities online dedicated to sharing "thinspiration", and they'd be all over this file if they knew it existed. The author has distanced himself from responsibility, and the only explanation offered for making this file is, "someone, somewhere, might fap to it."

Will that be enough to vindicate your conscious, should you ever have to face the damage it caused? ;)